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Poster: Solo Head Date: Sep 19, 2007 8:12am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Opinion Wanted

The people today, who are being turned on to the music of Grateful BUT never been to a show, are experiencing what percentage of actually being there?

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Poster: Lou Davenport Date: Sep 19, 2007 3:21pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted

It depends what you're looking to get. In all honesty, I get way more in terms of musical appreciation out of listening to good SBDs in my home or car than I ever did out of the few shows I attended. I know someone who went to the Mosque show in May 77 and can't remember a single thing about the music. How with all the screaming fans, and the buzz, and being young and clueless, could one ever hope to have experienced how truly fine the music-making was on that night?

For pure musical enjoyment, I think the Dead are a dish best served cold.

But that may not be what you are looking for when you ask about the "experience".

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 19, 2007 6:59pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted

Hey Lou--I am with you 100%...as I answered above, but PG pointed out, strictly speaking, I got it wrong (which I think he was right about).

I have become much, much more of a fan thru all my listening in the comfort of my car, home, etc., etc. The "experience" was altogether something else, other than the purest music aspect...

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Poster: Lou Davenport Date: Sep 19, 2007 7:19pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted

You and me both. I pretty much stopped listening to non-commercial recordings from the early 80s till about four years ago, because I was tired of listening to the nth generation cassettes and boomy auds I had. In the interim (pre-internet), I sometimes fantasized about tapping into a cache of early gen SBDs. I discovered the LMA one day, looking for a better recording of the 4-6-69 Avalon show, and since then have come to appreciate how seriously talented the boys were more than I ever had before. IMO, they do things that even great jazz combos seldom achieved. I could never have judged that from the floor of a packed arena, addled and distracted by the scene.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 19, 2007 7:40pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted

What a meeting of the minds...Don't tell ANYONE here, but just as an example: As much of a fan as I have always been, as much as I had everything they put out, and though I saw them many times, it was only in the past two yrs of constant listening to all the NEW stuff, esp from 68 thru 70, that I came to the conclusion, beyond dispute, that Jerry was one of the all time great guitar players. I just didn't think that was necessarily the case til I spent a great deal of time with them of late, and such high quality stuff to boot.

Cool.

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Poster: Lou Davenport Date: Sep 19, 2007 8:37pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted

"One of the"???

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Sep 19, 2007 9:05am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted

Pi

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Poster: DEETS Date: Sep 19, 2007 9:22am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted

You are missing the whole vibe. It is like looking at a picture instead of creating one. Still, if you use your imagination you can almost be there with a good aud.

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Poster: Solo Head Date: Sep 19, 2007 9:30am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted

Look folks, if I don't get a percentage 0-100%, I can't collect on my "favor" You guys don't want to leave me high and dry, do yah?

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Poster: northstar dead Date: Sep 19, 2007 9:36am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted

You can always go solo

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Poster: Solo Head Date: Sep 19, 2007 10:01am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted

to shows is one thing..but dating Sally Palm and her sisters is another.

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Poster: mcgannahan Date: Sep 19, 2007 9:31am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted

i've heard 230+ shows, read all their books, seen all their dvd's, bought all the damn shirts, pins, stickers, hats, socks, jerry dolls,ties,posters,cd's,limited edition jerry underwear, sunglasses, vests, hoodies, earrings, neclaces, beachballs, candles, incense, donna jean blow up sex dolls, got dead related tattoos, voted for a democrat....twice.... and still haven't seen one goddammm show.. fuck me

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Poster: Purple Gel Date: Sep 19, 2007 8:31am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted

Depends on how much acid they take....

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Poster: Solo Head Date: Sep 19, 2007 8:35am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted

Come on give me a percentage

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Poster: Jeff Gannon Date: Sep 19, 2007 8:41am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted

53%

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Poster: Scrim Date: Sep 19, 2007 11:54am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted

At the time, I knew I was witnessing historical events.

As for going to shows, the music wasn't the only experience. It was the traveling with your friends to all the different cities and states. It was the expectation of the tickets going on sale (dialing the hotline over and over once it was busy), the planning, the packing up (you need more than a cooler and hackey sack) and then hitting the road with your favorite tape blasting!!! Ah freedom, the open road! Spark one up!! Then getting to the big city, finding a parking spot, milling through the crowd, picking up a t-shirt for the friend who couldn't make it, and generally just tailgating until show time. Oh the expectation: what are they going to open with, what did they play last night, how are we going to sneak %&*@ into the concert, where do we meet if something goes wrong, I hope the guys sitting next to me showered within the last week...

The show was the show was the show. Camping every night, ready to do another 400 miles to the next city, meeting new friends, and just living the life. I really wanted to drop out of life and be a full-time tour rat, but didn't have the balls. I did as much as I could but still kept a full time job. Right now I'm glad I chose the path I did.

Oh the memories....

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Poster: Solo Head Date: Sep 19, 2007 12:40pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted

Here! Here!

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 19, 2007 1:21pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: This one counts...or not.

I disagree completely.

Well, not completely, because I think that what everyone said above has merit (all the stuff about the value of the experience, etc.).

But, think for a moment about how much each of you love some other band/singer you never saw (Jimi, Syd, young Bob Dylan, etc., etc.). I think you can get a lot from listening, with the right ear. That's right...and left.

I would say, easily, 90%.

I really believe that. I have to. The DEAD of 68, as you all know, I love beyond all measure, and yet, they are very different from the DEAD of 75 I saw...truly.

I know I can appreciate it, get it, etc., without having seen it.

This is not to diminish the greatness that came with the experience, but rather to point out that "knowing" something can be achieved in a variety of ways; the paths are legion, and often lead to the same place.

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Poster: Purple Gel Date: Sep 19, 2007 1:38pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: This one counts...or not.

I agree, just because you don't experience the scene does not mean you don't love the music, but that was not the question that was posed. The question, as I understand it was, not could you appreciate or love the band or music for what it was, but "what percentage of actually being there could you experience". My answer remains 0%.

While I love all sorts of different music,I still can't tell you how it was to actually see Miles, or Led Zepplin, or Cream, or any other number of bands live. I can only imagine what it was like to be in the crowd at a Beatles concert, with all those screaming, fainting fans. Seeing videos and hearing the concerts does not make me feel like I was there.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 19, 2007 1:56pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: This one counts...or not.

Crap. Call me dumb.

Just reading the responses, and only glanced at the question.

Like all good screwups, I say: "what a fucked up question!"

Half in jest--but really, not sure what is meant if literal ("what percentage of being there can you achieve if you were not there?" Or do I still have it wrong? Cause what you are writing, PG, makes a lot of sense to me, so you must be "seeing" the question better than I...maybe it is in reference to the ever elusive "it").

Oh yeah, I also change my answer, like all good screwups when given a second chance, to 0%.

Just as you cannot "know" it by watching a film of "it" or reading about "it" (which I believe; you know something important, BUT different; it is secondary and derived).

This post was modified by William Tell on 2007-09-19 20:56:05

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Poster: Solo Head Date: Sep 19, 2007 2:00pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: This one counts...or not.

O.k. simple ?...aw forget it....this forum is just like a show...lots of far out people with kind hearts and smokin' music.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 19, 2007 2:24pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: This one counts...or not.

Hey Solo--hope you know I was kidding...I really did read the question wrong.

It was most defn a cool thread, and I just wandered off the subject...

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Poster: darkeyes Date: Sep 19, 2007 9:11am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted

I saw the "In Concert 90 0r 91" footage and said to myself. I need to go to a show. It wasn't until spring '92 that I was able to experience that live at Hampton. Also, I knew I had to dose. I wanted to have my own "acid test" so to speak. After that night I was hooked, still am. I was able to see 14 more after that. "There is nothing like a grateful dead show", say that 3x while clicking your heels. So wish I could go back in time.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Sep 19, 2007 8:35am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted

How can you quantify that? I know I can't. I can't really be subjective. I mean, I hate to break it to people who love the music but never saw them but I'm not sure if you can totally hear it without never being there can you? To me, it wasn't even until my fourth show that i REALLY got hooked. I loved the tunes don't didn't become one with " it" until four shows in. Where I completely felt as one with the group mind or whatever you want to call it./ All I know is that once that happened it's like it became part of my DNA. I could always hear it and feel it differently after that. There are times I listen now, especially if I have a good buzz ( more power to Wharf Rats and all but the music does take on a different thing when enhanced ), that I can feel it get all up in me but it's still not the same as being there. Too many factors. Not only the thousands of electrified fellow weirdos but the way it sounded tonally. That is one of the reasons I think the band never fully transcends even on live recordings. Just the tone of the instruments on any given hall on any given night.

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Poster: Solo Head Date: Sep 19, 2007 8:45am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted

You expressed my sentiments exactly.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Sep 19, 2007 8:52am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted

cool. I feel sad for people who love the music but never saw them. Even the ones who only saw 94-95 at least got a dose ( no pun intended ) of it I'm sure

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Poster: Solo Head Date: Sep 19, 2007 8:56am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted

Hey Spot, can you give me a % just for the hell of it? I got a BJ from my lady riding on it.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Sep 19, 2007 10:30am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted

Solo - tell me what answer you need to win and I'll make sure to give you the right one : )

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Poster: dstanme Date: Sep 19, 2007 11:49am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted

eleventy six

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Poster: mcgannahan Date: Sep 19, 2007 8:56am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted

i've never seen them, wish i was born in 51, not 81, but then again right now i'd be an old fart. to me, the music is all that really matters to me, but i would have loved that owsleyian lsd from back in the day. i can get high, and do, from a dead tape. i still envy the hell out of those who followed them in the 70's and 80's. lucky bastards you. you were all so lucky, whether you realized it at the time or not.

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Poster: Zaorish Date: Sep 19, 2007 9:01am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted

I was born in 1985 and never saw a single show. Though I always liked Skeletons in the Closet, Dick's Picks 4 just fine, I only got hooked after the 4th or so show, just as you said, Johnny. From then on, the Dead has been a ceremonial religious experience for me. I don't know how much of the experience that is, but it seems good to me.

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Poster: Zaorish Date: Sep 19, 2007 9:42am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted

Yeah. To put it in totally secular terms, it's something that you do regularly, that centers you, brings you back to what's really important in life, every week mostly the same, a little different, and also to focus on a different virtue each time. (love, industry, patience, humility, charity, etc)

The other thing about religious experiences, I think, is that they mark the days. You listen to a really rocking Dead concert and you think back to the first time you heard it, or when you were listening to it during some tough times, and you remember who you were, and how you grew. I think that doing prayer groups/worship services is mostly the same thing for me, just more social.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Sep 19, 2007 9:29am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted

that's all that counts right? I consider them a religious experience too, in the good sense. More like spiritual but I'm sure we mean the same thing

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Poster: jackstraw86 Date: Sep 19, 2007 2:14pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted

JOTS hit the nail on the head with this comment. I concur whole heartedly. As someone else in the thread said: "It is like looking at a picture unstead of creating one".

But you need a number and I fully understand why. I'd say you're getting about 30% of the picture if you've never seen them live.

Good luck. I hope she swallows!

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Sep 19, 2007 2:54pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted

LOL on the last part. Reminds me of one of my favorite jokes. It's a word association game where you name a topic and the other person names a bird that fits the topic

Topic Common answer

America ( Eagle )
Baseball ( Orioles, Blue Jays, Cardinal )
Love ( Dove )
True Love (scroll down for the punchline )
























Swallow

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Poster: jglynn1.2 Date: Sep 19, 2007 8:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted

33.333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333 . . . . . .

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Poster: Purple Gel Date: Sep 19, 2007 9:54am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted

In all honesty, imho.....0%. Look, you can certainly love the music and appreciate it for the amazing entity that it is. You can't however, get the experience, they are two totally different creatures. I had heard all sorts of live tapes before my first show in '77, and was totally blown away by the experience of seeing the Dead live,it totally transcended anything I had imagined. It was about so much more than the music. It was the vibe, it was the bond between fans and band, it was about the common experience of 10,000 dedicated heads. It was about staying up all night to get to the next show. It was about dancing for 3 hours....and much much more..... Sorry, but you had to be there.

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Poster: high flow Date: Sep 19, 2007 11:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted

Well stated Purple. I agree. I heard hours upon hours of GD from my older bro.....liked it, just fine.

None of that prepared me for what was going to happen at the live show.

More of a carnival than I ever expected. More like a symphony than I ever expected. More crown participation than I ever expected. More of that undescribeable "it factor" than I could have imagined.

GD live shows changed me, and many others permanently.

It's tough to know if I'd love this music w/o the live experience.

I loved seeing Jerry Garcia play and sing. That was IT for me.

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Poster: Solo Head Date: Sep 19, 2007 10:04am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted

Are you reading this Lisa?...I suggest you start your mandibular exercises.

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Poster: latebutdeadicated Date: Sep 19, 2007 8:34am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted

The people today, who are being turned on to the music of Grateful BUT never been to a show, are experiencing what percentage of actually being there?


Solo,

"Being there" as you put it can't be reproduced unless you have seen the light and Jerry and the boys speak directly to you.

If you are enlightened as such, then the music takes you there, just remember to TURN IT UP LOUD!

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Poster: Solo Head Date: Sep 19, 2007 9:23am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted

so you would say 0% ??

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Poster: latebutdeadicated Date: Sep 19, 2007 9:27am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted

You have to ask yourself whether or not the music does it to you?

If you cant stop yourself from grinning ear to ear when Jerry wails away or you wiggle in your seat while the boys jam away, then you are there 100%.

If you find yourself turning it down during the jam because its too loud, then you weren't ever there, even if you were. 0%

I only saw four shows in 1995, so my "at the show" experience is very limited, but almost everyone here has a favorite show and it is likely that they were not in attendance.

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Poster: Purple Gel Date: Sep 19, 2007 8:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted

ok, 1/2% for every 10 micrograms ingested...

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Poster: AshesRising Date: Sep 19, 2007 11:03am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted

"I got a BJ from my lady riding on it." And we are supposed to take you as being serious?

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Poster: Solo Head Date: Sep 19, 2007 11:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted

actually it's literary license

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Poster: AshesRising Date: Sep 19, 2007 11:48am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinion Wanted

Solo Head: thank you for replying.

--- AshesRising